Americans Getting Smarter?
By MetisRebel on Oct 29, 2009 in Featured, Street Voices
Hey it looks as if some sort of public option is finally making it to the table. Whoo Hoo Americans! Good on you!
Recently I was bopping around YouTube.
Now, a couple of years ago the massive global belief was “Why are Americans [in general] so dumb? Can’t they see what’s going on in their own country? Why the hell do they believe anything Faux news [who pushed through lying as legitimate news reporting through court] has to say?” It’s a better right wing propaganda machine than Hitler commanded. And yes, surprise to anyone who doesn’t understand–Nazis were not “left wing” as the right wing nutballs tend to squall–they were RIGHT wing.
We really did despair for you. Yet, many Americans I’d meet online were bright, knew full well they were being ‘had’ and yet, their “voices” were nowhere to be found on the major media including CNN.
What we honestly cannot understand is how so many blatant liars and fabricators such as Anne Coulter, Rush Limbagh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly and others are allowed to blather their bullshit on prime time TV even after they have been completely discredited not once, but continually. Most countries license journalists, and if caught lying, no publisher nor media outlet would dare touch them due to libel laws and hate speech instigation.
The screaming and yelling insanity of the right wing pundits freaks out other first world countries. Really. We think they’re certifiable lunatics and cannot, for the life of us, understand why they have a single person listening to them. We’re baffled that you don’t boycott the products that fund such hogwash presenting your citizens to the world as a bunch of fringe fundamentalist frootbats. It wouldn’t look so dangerous except that real politicians and academics appear on such shows, lending legitimacy where none should be.
Well Virginny, there IS a Santa Claus. Bill Mahar, Keith Olbermann, Micheal Moore and others are talking about the working class and the poor and class warfare and making it to the major networks. Finally! Hallelujah! They’re out there, facts and figures in hand, proving just how corrupt the government, both republicans and democrats. are by taking billions in donations from the healthcare insurers and other vested interests instead of doing what the voters, voted them in, to do. They’re naming names and taking no prisoners–including Obama. That’s not fringe art, which most of the world can understand.
Now Obama is in a far superior position to Bush. He has the senate, the congress and the voters. If he doesn’t push through a public health care plan and preferably a universal health care plan–he’ll be permanently branded by the world as the gutless wonder who lost the perfect opportunity to help America become a first class country again. And you won’t get that opportunity for at least another 20 years.
I suggest to you that the dems were given all that money to either stall or stop a universal health care system. It worked. Whether Jesus walked on water or not–republicans can’t and it would have taken a momentous miracle to put that party of idiots back in the white house. Do you see a universal health care plan anywhere on the democrat’s table? And every day that goes by, the insurance corporations are sucking more millions out of the American economy while the debate rages.
The so-called hold up is that government health insurers don’t “turn a profit”. Uh, hello? Is anyone home? Tell me any country that has it whether the citizens care about that. It’s not supposed to “turn a profit”. It’s supposed to provide UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE! It’s not a corporation with stockholders–the stock is your nation’s improved healthh.
Finally a few media talking heads are throwing out what Americans care about, instead of what they’re told to care about. Instead of O’reilly and Limbaugh’s incoherent screeching based fabricated bullshit and whose entire style of discussion was insult your opponent because you have no facts and nothing remotely intelligent to say, there’s a few out there really debating back and forth! Hey, I’m impressed. And instead of the Faux news no-brain brigade, there are TV shows where the debaters are actually debating. Will wonders ever cease?
Obama may be the best “foreign policy” diplomatic-style president Americans have had for decades. His problem is that far too many of his campaign contributions came from the health care lobbyists and he wants to be re-elected, even if he screws the very citizens who voted him in. Where he’s stupid is that although the corporations can BRIBE through campaign contributions, they can’t VOTE. That’s the one strength America has left.
Moore hit the democratic nail on the voting head. Corporatism is the enemy of democracy. You can’t have both. You can have government-regulated [voter] capitalism, in fact it’s a great idea, works all over the UK and Nordic countries–but you cannot have complete government corruption through massive corporate campaign contributions where the elected officials shill for corporations instead of working for the voting public. That. Is. Not. Democracy.
Really America–tell all the democrats that if you’re going to deal with republicans with D’s on their t-shirts instead of real democrats, you might as well just vote the repubs back in and engage in direct action tactics.
You aren’t getting anything more out of your tax dollars than the Brits gave you–namely, your resources are being raped, the Lords of Corporation are stealing your communal wealth from under you, your wages are abysmal, your land is being stolen by licentious banks and your taxes are paying for foreign wars. Your tax burden, by far, was cheaper under British rule. And even they never made you bail out any banks or corporations against your will.
Our frustration up here is idiot politicians following your example…
MetisRebel I tolerate dissent readily. Debate me, go for it. Jump on it. However, I expect that we are adults and no matter how much pain and suffering any of us have been through, or how personally affected we may be by this, I believe we are capable of tolerating dissent. In fact, the true measure of freedom is the extent to which a society tolerates differing opinions.
~MR, thanks for the thought-provoking article…
Rev. Cynthia | Oct 29, 2009 | Reply
~MR, thanks for the thought-provoking article…
Rev. Cynthia | Oct 29, 2009 | Reply
MR, in the spirit of friendly debate, I have to dissent.
Limbaugh is a blowhard, and just about everybody knows it. Hannity is following his example, but, Bill O’reilly is one of the most honest people on the new’s today. O’Reilly is a commentator, not a journalist, and his show is simply a conservative Irish Catholic view of the daily politics.
Now, according to a poll from the Pew research institute FOX (not faux) had the most balanced coverage of the last election of any network. The coverage was actually slightly tilted t words Obama Vs. Mccain
I am for universal health care, but not this. I say this over and over……this bill in the senate is worse then HR3200. It still gives people like most of us here nothing but a fine for not buying private insurance.
Bill, Limbaugh, Hannity and many of the “right wing” are right on this one.
I watched an interview a few day’s ago between Hannity and Michael Moore. Moore fell flat on his face.
What happened to the objective documentaries like “Roger and me” ? I loved that movie about GM. Moore is now just a sell out. Living rather wealthy exploiting poor people to make movies.
michael | Oct 29, 2009 | Reply
I did a little research on the “Nordic model”
No thanks, I would much rather be poor then have all that restriction on what I could or could not do.
57% tax burden in finland Vs. 26% in the US ?????
GOV restriction (in the US it’s bad already) on what to build, when and where? That’s worse then California.
As an American, I would rather kick off from lack of health care then have the GOV dominate my everyday life, fine and punish me for not buying insurance, even though the “promise” of VA health care was made to me 18 years ago, then they changed it. Don’t trust them.
michael | Oct 29, 2009 | Reply
You’re defining “smart” subjectively as people who agree with your political and social views. While I personally *do* agree with your views, in fact, I’m about as socialist and liberal a person as they come, I don’t think that awarding people intellectual points because the zeitgeist has shifted and more of them are in line with your thinking (or mine) has anything to do with intelligence.
There are many smart people who are right wing. Their politics and social views are shaped by their experiences just as yours have shaped yours. There are two sides to everything and many valid perspectives. While it’d be great if I could say that my view is the smart one and that those who agree with me are clearly more informed than I, it’s really not that clear cut.
There are merits and demerits to every aspect of an issue and its short-sighted to simply say the part that is embraced by people holding a particular viewpoint is the intelligent one. If you do this, you’re not different than those who discount your viewpoint or see your intellect as lacking because you disagree with them. The smart place is one in which all perspectives are weighed and given due consideration, not dismissing those that don’t jive with your particular sensibilities.
Orchid64 | Oct 29, 2009 | Reply
Wonderfully said, Orchid64.
Micheal - love ya bro, and I understand from where you’re coming from. I may not be quite as socialist/liberal as MR, but I’m way far to the left on many issues simply because of my own experiences in this country and the recognition that for many, the options just aren’t the same as for others.
As a final note, it’s a sorry day indeed when those of us who supposedly have the power to vote people into the government then come out against that same government after we put them there and scream “don’t trust em.”
If anyone’s to blame for the current crop of political pos’s in power, it is “we the peeps.” We put em there, we don’t protest loudly enough when they’re up to no good, and now we’ve allowed them to set all the rules and change em when they get caught up in them.
It’s OUR fault, and no one elses.
A while back I mentioned “revolution.” While some immediately took this to mean it in the traditional sense, I really meant it in this vein. Only WE can make the changes and we do so through our votes. Sure, it’s only one vote, but the power of one has never been more because we’ve got the ability to reach out now and touch someone on the other side of the country.
The time to lay blame is over. We’ve got to get together and begin focusing the priorities upon those of us who matter - US. It can be done and while Obama may not be the panacea many were hoping for, he did show us all that the impossible is (does html work here?) possible baby…..
Steve | Oct 30, 2009 | Reply
Micheal: However, according to media watch Fox is completely unbalanced. Their methodology is statistical unlike the “watchers” who are starting from a biased view. Have you watched or read global news such as Al Jazeera? BBC? CBC? French? German?
They are far more balanced than Fox.
If Bill O’Reilley blaming rape victims for drinking and accusing a sex predator victim of “having fun” by skipping school with his kidnapper represents the “Irish Catholic view” sorry–but I don’t know any Irish Catholics with that viewpoint.
You are misconstruing, “right” for “not wrong” here. The right wing wants NO health care reform at all and they’ll pick holes in everything. That’s their job as the opposition.
The left hates it because they want *universal* health care–which is what you want. The problem here is campaign money, pandering to the repubs against the will of the majority and obstructionism.
Good, Grief! Canadians, Swedes, Brits, Danes–you name them–are not “punished” if they don’t “buy healthcare”–because they don’t buy health insurance. The problem here is that the repubs are fogging the problem. That little legalese idiocy seems to be a completely American political invention. And frankly, I see it is manipulative to design that into a bill so everyone is afraid to vote for it–and thus, daily, the insurers make millions more as everyone panics.
Danish tax CAN REACH high percentages for the wealthy since it is progressive income tax and the less advantaged pay far less. However in North America the lower income brackets are paying the bulk of the taxes while the wealthy pay less tax. Also the Danes are presently re-vamping their tax systems.
Well, we’re on the same page there Michael! Presently all North American government represents the will of the corporations and not the will of the people. Doesn’t matter *which* side you’re on–nothing about the bail outs, Health insurance etc. reflects the “will of the people”. That’s the part that North Americans don’t get in general about European countries.
The PEOPLE voted to have the benefits of citizens, that they have. The government didn’t *force* it on them. Since most have one-person-one-vote systems politicians *can’t* do the pull kind of crap as in North America without severe ramifications. And there tend to be strong restrictions on campaign contributions, 3 or more running parties etc.
What “freedoms” do you honestly believe you would be “missing” in a Nordic country if you’re working class [which IS the majority at 95%]
MetisRebel | Oct 30, 2009 | Reply
Actually I don’t have a problem with well-thought out republican political viewpoints since I started out on the libertarian/republican side of this and can still debate from that side if need be.
What I object to–is the screaming idiocy of Hannity, O’Reilly and others who simply shout down their opponents, shut off their mics when they respond, call that “debate” and claim they’ve won.
Put those fools up against their predecessors such as John Locke, Rousseau, Kant, Thomas Hobbes, Winston Churchill and Cicero because they don’t fare very well.
They’re sadly lacking in even understanding how republicanism works–never mind how to implement policies based on it. The basis of republicanism was best summed up by Cicero, “The government is the servant of the people.”
Yet here are the majority of Americans, demanding universal healthcare yet unable to get co-operation from elected officials. That’s about as “un-republican” as one can get.
The first rule of all republicans is “do not bankrupt the country in foreign wars”–yet voila!
The fox pundits aren’t supporting “republicanism’ [nor is the republican party]–they’re supporting unfettered capitalism and corporate greed–very, very off target. They’re supporting the major banks which is also completely un-republican because under republicanism, a politician is only supposed to be swayed by what is good for the country–not what’s good for wall street. No republican of merit believes in Federal reserves and deficit monetary systems–ever. No true republican would, as Bush did–demand a bail-out. [and yes, the democrats are guilty, too] Republicanism is based on building strong working, middle and artisan classes as the backbone of the nation–not sucking up their collective wealth then foreclosing and bankrupting the very basis of a strong country.
It is against republican principles to institute an income tax at all–never mind add $3,000 per year to that tax burden per household by corporate bail-outs.
What I’m finding interesting now is that some channels [which is why I said "smarter"] are engaging better debates with well-spoken republicans who understand the above principles vs. democratic principles instead of chronic shrieking.
MetisRebel | Oct 30, 2009 | Reply
@Steve:
The problem here is WHO did you get to vote for and who backed them with campaign contributions to sway the public into voting?
I’d say the options were kinda limited at the time, but the door just opened.
Where you’re right is that the responsibility for good government does not stop with the vote. One must DISSENT. Dissenting is when the populace say “Whoa there ponies…go left, go right!” when a turn comes up.
Take a look at when Kennedy was in power. There were all sorts of sit-ins, strikes, protests and “power to the people” because the citizens believed they were being heard by his administration.
They had faith that they weren’t going to be shot down like dogs as they would be later, under Nixon at Kent State or battered into bloodiness and murdered on the streets as they had been under previous administrations.
Right now, America is in a much better position to “make it happen” than Canada is. Obama can’t do it without the will of the people because he’s facing down enemies on all sides. He needs YOU–so he can announce that’s what you’ve asked for.
The job started with the vote now, go get ‘em tigers! Be loud, be proud! [and videocam EVERYTHING!]
MetisRebel | Oct 30, 2009 | Reply
I think an important question is why the Fox commentators are listened to?
That is, what are the deep motivations behind their audience?
What needs are people trying to meet by listening to them?
There is a cynical arrogance in this article because it does not address the legitimate concerns that those in the Right have.
The community that espouses tolerance and dignity to all needs to model this. This does not mean tolerating or respecting blatant KKK type behaviors but there is a significant difference between that and the more conservative people in the US and by confusing this we do nothing to move the society forward.
Gideon | Oct 30, 2009 | Reply
“The left hates it because they want *universal* health care–which is what you want. The problem here is campaign money, pandering to the repubs against the will of the majority and obstructionism.”
One thing you are forgetting MR, the Democrats have complete control of the house, the senate, and the administration. They can do whatever they want, the republicans can’t stop a thing.
Democrats have so far failed to agree on anything for more then five minutes. You are right about all the corruption, the pay outs, all of that.
The American left needs to wake up, and stop following blindly just because some politician has a D before their name when they are on television.
As written, the new health bill won’t pay ONE single benefit to anyone for fifteen years. Taxes, fines and penalties start now, but we better all not get sick for the next fifteen years, or else have the money to pay the Doc.
More taxes means less money available for doctor bills, makes perfect sense to me why this health bill is crap.
My whole life everything the GOV promised me was a lie yet every year they still take my money.
“If Bill O’Reilley blaming rape victims for drinking and accusing a sex predator victim of “having fun” by skipping school with his kidnapper represents the “Irish Catholic view” sorry–but I don’t know any Irish Catholics with that viewpoint.”
When did that happen??? I must have missed it, and the entire news media here must have missed it, or it would have been all over the tv for months and he would have gone down in flames like Don Imus did over the rutgers basketball team comment.
michael | Oct 30, 2009 | Reply
when you ask how can we listen to and follow the instructions of the limbagh crowd, your premise is that we in the usa are of average intelligence…….fact is we are really stupid. I recently moved to texas,,,,,everyone down here is an idiot. they all hate Obama and wish we had the guy that destroyed america and nearly the world, back in office. there is a saying, i cant remember the author. goes like this “Noone ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of americans” seems aprapo?
mr. potatohead | Oct 31, 2009 | Reply
“The community that espouses tolerance and dignity to all needs to model this. This does not mean tolerating or respecting blatant KKK type behaviors but there is a significant difference between that and the more conservative people in the US and by confusing this we do nothing to move the society forward.”
The problem I’m pointing out Gideon, is that there is a disservice done to legitimate concerns when screeching pundits are speaking for a diverse group who often have legitimate points.
It is a legitimate republican concern of those who observe that the government is not “the servant of the people.”
It is a legitimate republican concern that a country “not engage, nor be bankrupted by foreign warfare.”
It’s a legitimate concern for republicans and libertarians that corporations have NO accountability while entrepreneurs and small business must jump through hoops of fire and pay too much in comparison, tax-wise to those corporations and thus, are starting out financially, and through regulations, crippled in their efforts to conduct business.
It’s a legitimate concern for *everyone* that politicians are bought and sold and that corporations have huge lobbying power that the average voter can’t compete against.
These are all legitimate concerns that need voices. However as you’ve pointed out, the ad hominum attacks, fear-mongering and out-and-out fabrications of these so-called “republicans” on Fox aren’t doing a service to those with legitimate concerns that are tackling those concerns from a Republican viewpoint.
What IS hopeful right now, is that other stations are bringing on republican debaters that *can* debate with reason and intelligence. THAT is why I say, “Getting smarter”.
One of the most severe problems I’m seeing is that there isn’t much of a left, left. There’s a right-left, and a very right-right.
A “left” position would be universal health care that includes dental, medications, and a wide variety of medical services, for example.
A “right” position in this day and age would be basic medical coverage then workplaces covering more advanced services to the advantage of heavily competing insurance companies dropping rates fighting for those contracts instead of the present monopolized, overprices and protected systems of insurance.
The present bills–aren’t left or right–they’re *corporate*.
There’s no left or right in a plutocracy that is sucking up the wealth of the people to bail out inefficient corporations. That’s how profligate nobles operated–waste all the money then leech more out of the working peasants and shopkeepers.
As well, republican governmental structure and action isn’t necessarily defined by “capitalism” and that is an error all too often made in American politics.
“Republic” is a system of government. “Capitalism” is a system of economics–not political policy. Republicanism existed pre-Christianity.
Capitalism did not exist until 1850.
MetisRebel | Oct 31, 2009 | Reply
mr. potatohead:
Some of what I am pointing out here is that there is a very big difference between what goes on with Fox and what I have been seeing discussing politics, economics etc. with the “average American”.
I look through my comment sections, for example and whether I agree or not with a particular viewpoint–there are mainly rational, reasonable people discussing all sorts of topics. 99% aren’t screeching or freaking or acting in general, like idiots. Yet so many “pundits” on Fox, do?
Unfortunately, when one watches American TV–there’s everything from class bias on sitcoms to screeching idiocy on Fox. Yet, the people I speak with–are just as bright [though differing politically] as everyone else on the globe.
It’s that strange dichotomy between the American *people* and the way the American media tends to *present* the American people to the rest of the world, that I don’t understand.
Sometimes I wonder if Rupert Murdoch and Sarah Palin are closet democrats undermining the Republican agenda?
MetisRebel | Oct 31, 2009 | Reply
@Micheal:
Yuppers–O’Reilly said it–available on YouTube with a bit of searching. Hopefully, he lost a bunch of audience those days. Olbermann and a number of other news stations took major pot shots at him about both those comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkrMVwWAn3M
Shawn Hornbeck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvp0xxu0OOo&feature=related
He was fired as the speaker at a child victim’s conference after he was “outed” by other newscasters and the Shawn Hornbeck remarks went viral on YouTube.
He has never apologized to that family. Why he is still on the air, defeats me.
Absolutely, I agree. Which is why previously I said that if Obama and the dems did NOT push through healthcare–he’d be known as the most gutless president *ever*.
I don’t understand why the dems have NOT thrown universal health care bills out–short of the fact most of them owe their campaigns to corporate sponsors. I’m as confused as you are.
Yeah and what’s THAT all about? The Dems are in a prime position to tell the repubs to STFU and sit down–yet they’re busy arguing? Why argue and convince? Just DO IT!
I’d agree. I’d also say, having an “R” on one’s shirt doesn’t make one a Republican, either.
We just had the NDP–the most socialist party we have, sell out to the conservatives for an unemployment insurance bill. Hell, I knew Jack was STUPID [he is, really, I mean really, dumb] but I never took him for a complete traitor to the his party. Now all the lefties will have to vote “Green” and they have no power and no money. Good show Jack–you freaking idiot.
Ed Broadbent must be turning in his grave. Oh Ed, you died too soon:-(
Help!
/wildly waving hands and sinking in quicksand here/
Hell, maybe I should run for the libertarian party.
MetisRebel | Oct 31, 2009 | Reply
OK MR,
I stand corrected.
michael | Oct 31, 2009 | Reply
MR,
You say that capitalism did not exist here until after 1850…what happened in 1850?
ghideon | Nov 1, 2009 | Reply
MR,
You should run as a libertarian, you might actually get something done.
On a local note, I am heading down tomorrow night yet again to yell at the county supervisors meeting. This is GOV idiocy at it’s best.
Five years ago they added $300 to my property tax for “road assessment”
I went down to the county office and asked why, as it is technically a private road (property lines run to the middle of the road).
The lady at the county office told me the tax was for road maintenance. I said great, now me and the neighbors don’t have to do it anymore.
Every year I get together with the neighbors and we rent equipment and re grade the road.
A year later, nothing had been done to the road, so I went down and asked for my $300 back. Of course they told me no, as the county is not responsible to maintain private roads.
So I started fighting with the county at the supervisors meetings. The last one I went to, the jackass had the nerve to tell me “Sir, I don’t understand why you keep coming here and complaining about the lack of road maintenance when you have a private road”
me: “You don’t get it. I don’t care about the lack of maintenance of the road, I want my money back since you don’t maintain it, I do, yet you charge me for maintaining it.”
“sir, you have to pay for the maintenance of county roads”
me:”what roads? every one but the one I live on?”
“sir we maintain all the roads in the county”
me:”but not mine”
“sir you live on a private road”
me:”almost every dirt road in this county is technically private, so what do you maintain?”
“every road in this county”
Me:”but the residents of incorporated towns don’t have to pay this tax, why?”
“because the cities maintain their own roads, you don’t seem to understand”
me:”but I pay the tax and you don’t maintain my road. I have to pay for equipment rental to fix it on top of that”
“sir, sit down or you will be removed”
As usual, I was removed from the meeting.
This is what scares me about the rise of government. Maybe big GOV works in europe, but it’s not going to work here.
Right now, with things as bad as they are every dollar counts.
Even though BofA got billions in bail out cash, they still send me a foreclosure notice every two months. I scrounge up the money and the cycle repeats yet again.
michael | Nov 1, 2009 | Reply
@ Gideon,
I think people watch fox because they are desperately looking for the truth.
People want to know what’s going on, and the alphabet networks have been a tool of the left for many years.
MSNBC is a joke, and only CNN seems to be in the relative middle anymore. The Acorn scandal that fox broke, yet no other network carried anything about it for weeks proved that. There was no mention on any other news network until the house voted to cut off all federal funding to Acorn.
The trick is to watch all of them, and try to pick the real facts out of the bias.
The impartial days of trusting Cronkite are over. Journalism died, and as MR pointed out, it’s now just pundits yelling, but they are yelling from both sides.
michael | Nov 1, 2009 | Reply
@ghideon
Industrial revolution. Before that, there was “mercantilism”.
MetisRebel | Nov 1, 2009 | Reply
@Michael:
2 IMPORTANT TIPS for dealing with government idiots.
One, take friends–that way if you don’t say anything abusive, it’s harder to chuck you out.
Two–videotape. Really. I’m sure with the right set up–YouTubers would *love* this idiocy. Plus you can send copies [dvd's are cheap] around to the media and other places you think might help.
Next time you go–take some clown noses, after all, if they’re going to act like clowns, maybe they should be wearing a matched set!
“Journalism died, and as MR pointed out, it’s now just pundits yelling, but they are yelling from both sides.”
Journalism died the day Fox news got it pushed through the court system that demanding that journalists LIE was still considered “news” reporting. See “Outfoxed”, it’s around.
In other countries, that’s not legal.
And if you think about it–ACORN is small potatoes when you look at an illegal first election of Bush as well as inaccurate voting machines.
Top priority needs to be getting rid of those machines, hand counting votes and restricting campaign contributions and lobbying and making journalists accountable if they’re caught deliberately lying on a news broadcast. Otherwise, everything is mickey mouse change that won’t ever serve “the will of the people”.
MetisRebel | Nov 1, 2009 | Reply
I work in a pharmacy. The government has done wonders…… Medicare - broke, social security - broke, post office - broke, can’t wait until they totally screw up healthcare. I’m tired of paying for people that they’re only disability is LAZY. Now, don’t get on me, I don’t mind helping out those that are TRULY disabled, but I see so many folks that are lazy and there’s nothing else wrong with them, that I am a bit jaded on that. They tell me “I need my pills early because I’m going to Florida”, I tell them it must be nice as I can’t afford to go to the next city over. Whatever happened to people taking responsibilty for themselves and thhelping out their families? We could all learn from the Amish in this respect. They don’t depend on the Gov. for themselves, they take care of each other!Come on people, step up to the plate!
Andrea in Mass. | Nov 7, 2009 | Reply
Andrea in Mass:
How do you know if a medicated person is “lazy”?
Are you a psychiatrist who can diagnose, for example bipolar? Or schizophrenia? Or clinical depression? Or a doctor who can diagnose arthritis? COPD? Other “unseen” conditions?
All of these conditions can make getting employment extremely difficult, when it’s possible at all.
Now if someone has schizophrenia and is medicated, is there some reason, if someone buys them a ticket that they CAN’T go to Florida? I have an extremely physically disabled friend who has a buddy that buys her a trip somewhere about once a year to keep her company. Now, what has her trip have to do with the fact that you are likely: highly underpaid, have crappy working conditions, and a possible lack of medical benefits?
Do I think that “communal solutions” such as the Amish and Mennonites propose have some good grassroots solutions? Absolutely.
I also know that the Mennonites BACKED universal healthcare in Canada when it was proposed–because it was the “Christian thing” to do. They’ve also had a number of generations to build up communal wealth. They also “take care of their own” [and as I will point out later, others] as best they can.
Both groups are also highly restrictive and even the smallest areas of life are under the scrutiny of religious leaders. If that’s a way you want to live, you are free to convert.
The Amish particularly, have come under media scrutiny for child abuse and other non-legal practises by those who have fled the community.
I might also add that the Mennonites here have huge “newcomer/immigrant” programs as well as a number of other community initiatives for those who are povertized or on social assistance. Somehow, that makes me doubt the majority would agree with your assessment about those on government benefits as being “lazy”.
How do people “step up to the plate” and help each other if they’re blaming the poor for being lazy?
MetisRebel | Nov 7, 2009 | Reply
~Andrea, of course, you are absolutely right that some people are lazy. And, I imagine that several able-bodied folks have “learned helplessness” issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness. That can be psychologically paralyzing, so perhaps it should come under a mental health category.
And when you ask that people (family/friends/community members connected to the people who are struggling financially)”step up to the plate,” I also agree with that. However, based on my own life experience, what I have found is that concept is easier in theory than it actually is in practice.
After I had several surgeries, my family stepped in and shared their housing with me (6 months w/ family members in the south & 6 months with other family members in the north-I had a whole set of doctors in each place & surgeries in both of those states). Following about 3 years of that, my family wanted their privacy back (not to mention, I also wanted my life back). I continued (& still continue) to go through more surgeries. In the meantime, I also became homeless, because without subsidized housing, my dissability funds were not enough to cover both housing & food.
In my own case, of being on SSI disability, if I have more outside income than $85. a month (this means any help that family or friends might give to me- such as groceries/medical assistance/ etc.), Social Security starts to reduce my check. No one can take on the total financial responsibility of me, which comes to about $1,000. a month. (my SSI check is now $845. a month & that does not cover all of my expenses).
Where I am currently living, I am not allowed to have guests staying with me for more than 14 days a year. So, even if I wanted to help out someone, who was in need,with housing (which quite honestly, I would not care to share my space- and I’ll guess most people feel that way), I would be at risk of losing my housing. Many people, who rent, might also be in that situation and not able to assist a friend or family member with housing.
Just out of curiousity,Andrea, are you in a position (willing & able) to help any of your family or friends, who might need assistance (now or in the future) with housing, medical, food, transportation expenses?
I am quite blessed that my son sends me a Trader Joe’s gift card to help out w/ my groceries every month and, due to his work schedule, rather than him flying to visit me, he provides me w/ air tickets to come visit him once a year.
The solutions can certainly appear to be easy, but often they are not.
Blessings along the journey…
Rev. Cynthia | Nov 8, 2009 | Reply
Well said, Rev.
It’s just not as simple as “lazy” or “unwilling”.
I’d love to turn TigerSoop into a full time paying proposition but the fact is–it’s highly unlikely. Everyone is disabled in different ways and even if we wanted to go “full time” we couldn’t, because we can’t guarentee the physical or mental health of any given member at any given time.
So I am working around that by gearing us up for busking/street entertaining where if members are unable to come, we can either “go short” because there is no contract–or cancel.
No “real job” would have that amount flexibility for any of us.
If we learn to make some decent money beyond expenses, then we can have that deducted from our cheques, making us cheaper to the taxpayers than “doing nothing” or volunteering.
However, because we cannot travel, our money-making options are also limited.
What’s clear to me is that due to the high unemployment rate, disabled people who might be able to make a little money at part-time or flexible employment are completely overshadowed in the job market by those who are young and healthy competing for the sorts of jobs the disabled CAN do.
No employer who offers health benefits is going to want to pay increased premiums for someone coming in with a physical or mental condition, laws to the contrary, regardless. They also don’t want the “workers comp” risk, either.
And without those benefits, the disabled can’t risk going without medication or medical care.
It’s a highly complex problem.
So rather than try to work around all that complexity, I’ve tried to create a small solution that is good for us, good for the public and may hopefully, cost less to the system in the long run.
The “good poor people” vs. “bad poor people” is a trap. It keeps us divided instead of united with the working class to find solutions.
MetisRebel | Nov 9, 2009 | Reply
@Andrea,
Three years ago you may have had a point. At that time I had to hire anyone willing to work, whether they had any experience or not. I just needed bodies, and a lot of on the job training.
With everything in the tank, there are many skilled professional people I know that can’t even find a job flipping burgers.
In a depressed area, you have two choices.
#1 take what ever you can find, and hope things get better quickly
#2 Split and go somewhere else where there is more work. That’s easy for single people, but hard for a family to do.
Moving takes money, travel, finding a place then first and last and deposit. It is even more difficult when you own a house. Either walk away from it, or try to sell it (which you can’t do right now without taking a huge loss) so it get’s even more complicated.
Most of the people I know in that position right now have exhausted all their resources, hoping for a change in the economy, and are now just screwed. They can’t find anything, can’t afford to move, and don’t have the cash to rent something when the bank finally throws them out.
I am a big fan of free market capitalism, but allowing banks to kick people out on the street while the GOV just hands them the money to cover the bad loans is NOT the free market.
Banks that made risky/bad loans should go under just like the families they are tossing out on the road.
You either socialize the whole system, or none of it (my preference) but this half ass’d help the companies and screw the working people idea floating around the GOV just HAS to stop. It’s just flat out unsustainable.
Right now the GOV is telling the banks to sit on foreclosed property so they don’t depress the housing market anymore then it already is.
So the bank kicks you out, they don’t list the property for sale, they don’t maintain it, it becomes a blight in the neighborhood which depresses property value even more, the GOV covers the money for the bank to keep their “bottom line” solvent, and the cycle goes on.
Everyone does well except the PEOPLE that got thrown out of their home, and the neighbors that now can’t sell their home.
I have to wonder what happened to plain old common sense. I think they must steal it when you go to college, this is plain as daylight to everyone I know that doesn’t have an “education”
michael | Nov 9, 2009 | Reply
Well said Michael.
The present unemployment rate is nationally [and I question that it's this low] 24-25%.
In many areas–it’s 50%+ not including those who can only get part-time, short term contract work, or are underemployed and those that are de-housed or don’t show up on the government ledgers [for example, someone disabled, on assistance who MIGHT be able to work part/full time in a supportive environment or low unemployment market.]
Since many McJobs won’t pay the rent or mortgage and they seem to be the majority of paid employment– all the so-called financial experts and neo-con pundits in the world screaming bullcrap can’t cover up the obvious. When we look around our neighbourhoods and out of dozens, can only count one or two people with full-time, decently paid employment–it’s not hard to see economic disaster on the horizon.
MetisRebel | Nov 11, 2009 | Reply
I could just flip out whenever I hear that the stock market rose, and it is still in the 9000s. It is really all I can do to stay cool, take the news in stride, and go to work.
Bank of America just closed my bank account because I refused to pay the extra fee they added on for overdrawn accounts back in the spring. I was not expecting any extra fee when I went into the bank a few days after having overdrawn my account by $9.36.
I was prepared to pay the usual $35 fee, which is really enormous for such a small overdraft. When the teller told me it would be
$79.36 I could not believe my ears. I refused to pay it and got in line to see a bank manager.
The bank manager told me there was nothing she could do and that if I did not pay the overdraft and the two fees, I would have my account closed and then I would not be able to open an account anywhere —- a potent threat, but I do not like being threatened.
I said I would never pay the fees and asked who I could call about this matter. She gave me an address in Los Angeles, and I wrote a letter by hand`since I do not have a printer. I never received an answer.
My employer has just been bought out by another company so I need to be able to cash my work check or park it somewhere. Not even the nearest credit union would let me open an account. I chastised the credit union manager since his institution is not a bank and should not behave like one.
(I am able to open a savings account anywhere, I believe, it is just the idea of the banks dominating us all!!!)
So the banks are being subsidized by the taxpayers who they are trying to rob every which way before the new regulatory legislation is enacted next year. If the banks can’t rob you, they shut you down.
Kerry Echo | Nov 11, 2009 | Reply
Kerry that is simply madness. You’re right–the banks down there are in SERIOUS need of regulation.
I think it’s in the area of $30 here for a bounced cheque [not sure] however if you close your account–it’s NO problem to get one elsewhere. I had no prob getting a credit union account and they have guarded my privacy magnificently.
I wonder if there’s a way Americans can start using CANADIAN banks [or Nordic or UK] to show their displeasure at lack of regulations. After all, I see my bank only every year or so, since I use the card.
Mind you the banks here are a major pain in the butt as far as paperwork, but once it’s all done–live and let live.
Hey, why don’t you guys start President Choice [through Loblaws] accounts online or find another way to get around this madness you are dealing with?
After all, I think with some of those accounts you can just pop your cheque in ANY bank machine, or get direct deposit paycheques then use the bank card to get the money out. It takes longer because it’s not priority but it beats dealing with self-important twattery.
If EMPLOYERS backed their workers on this–then it shouldn’t be much of a hassle???
Start the worker’s banking revolution *chuckle*
PS: Those banking B-tards made record profits and bonuses last year AFTER taking the money they haven’t paid back.
I’m beginning to see why the depression era bank robbers were considered working class heroes.
Jeezus wept.
MetisRebel | Nov 12, 2009 | Reply
Hey Kerry,
Much as it pains me to admit it, Walmart will cash payroll and government checks for $3 or less. I think Albertsons will do it for $5. It’s at least better than those ripoff check-cashing places that take like 8% of your check total.
~Bri
~B~ | Nov 12, 2009 | Reply
Bri, Thank you!
(Of course, you would know about WalMart!!!)
It was not the end of the world that BofA reported me to all the credit agencies and that I cannot bank anywhere now — unless I want only a Savings Account, but it was the insult of it and the extra burden they place on a working person. Bad credit or not, I work; and that deserves some respect since few institutions are shy about taking your money!
Good to see you around, Bri!
Kerry Echo | Nov 12, 2009 | Reply
Wonders never cease, I even have an article going up on HT tomorrow
It was supposed to go up a few days ago, but Matt’s internet has been down and he has to put stuff up whenever he can make it to his town library. But we have some very exciting news, so be prepared!
~B~ | Nov 12, 2009 | Reply
Oh Good News Bri–can’t wait!
Also, thanks for the tip cuz I know a lot of people that don’t have bank accounts so knowing that WallyWarp will cash them might help.
I’m still trying to fathom that they’re selling caskets online.
Maybe the gov’t buy up thousands of waterproof ones and at least the de-housed will have a warm, dry place to sleep this winter that’s cheaper than aying $30-80 per night for a shelter bed.
Caskets, due to size really hold heat. I knew a guy who slept in homemade one. Really. Pulled it along on his bike so he was never “homeless”.
Gawd knows its the only real estate the gov’t is gonna allow ‘em…
MetisRebel | Nov 13, 2009 | Reply
~MR, HOLY SMOKES!!! I can’t believe you just said that - bicycles pulling caskets and people sleeping in them? Sorry, but it is completely over the top for me.
Although, seems like it would be a great protest tactic-caskets all over the gov’t office bldg lawns w/ folks sleeping in them during “National Homeless Person’s Memorial Day” Dec. 21st comes to mind. It is the longest night of the year and sadly a lot of people, who are homeless, will die of exposure. Guess that visual could certainly make a point.
~Bri, I am on “pins & needles”- hopefully, the GOOD NEWS will surface in your article tomorrow. Even without knowing what it is, all I can say is, “Hallelujah, Sister!” Thanks so very much for bringing us all along on the journey!
Onward…
Rev. Cynthia | Nov 13, 2009 | Reply
Hi Cynthia,
Haven’t heard from Matt all day, so it’s looking like the article won’t be posted today, as it would seem he didn’t manage to make it to the library.
A friend in the UK emailed me an hour ago to say that there’s been very inclement weather all day, so I suppose that’s why.
Maybe tomorrow
~Bri
~B~ | Nov 13, 2009 | Reply
~Hi Bri, having lived in Mexico for 6 months and spending 3 weeks in India, as well as other world travels, the internet issue can be truly horrible in other parts of the world. That said, it is also extremely frustrating and can be of great concern, when we are unable to reach our loved ones.
If you & Matt have been relying on Skype for your voice communication & that isn’t working when the internet is down, I can also highly recommend http://www.uniontelecard.com/ for calling on landlines or w/ cell phones. I have been able to talk w/ folks in Malaysia, India, Syria, etc. for 3-7 cents a minute.
Will look forward to reading about the good news, whenever your article posts. In the meantime, congratulations, Bri!!!
Blessings along the journey…
Rev. Cynthia | Nov 13, 2009 | Reply
As much as I enjoy the time I spend in the US, I confess I am often baffled as to what passes for ‘news’.
I know that our own is often less than perfect but surfing through the channels in the US and much of what I see on the news and certainly some of the personalities I see simply would not meet broadcasting standards here.
Not as news anyway. ‘Entertainment’ perhaps but not news.
admin | Nov 14, 2009 | Reply
Hi Matt,
I could not agree more.
Even when it comes to national news reported on National Public Radio (NPR}, it seems to get stuck on one piece of news, kills it, and kills it a few more times. The Fort Hood murders were given an entire week and very little investigative reporting was done. It was very much the same story over and over again.
The same thing has happened to the Health Care bill being wrangled out of Congress. I know there are other newsworthy stories in the U.S., so it seems as though there is a news blackout. I miss watching the Lehrer Newshour on PBS, that is, on television; but, as you know, I do not watch much television and do not need one.
What I really enjoy is listening to the BBC on the radio which NPR broadcasts after our national news. The Brits offer some interesting perspective on American news, on the banking crisis both here in the U.S. and in Europe, on our health care situation, and on world trade.
It becomes very clear from listening to the BBC just how insular our news reporting is. I credit some of the stupidity of the American people to the increasing docility of the news media since the Reagan era. “Imbedded” reporters at the front??? We are not getting much news on the war as a consequence, certainly nothing like we were getting out of Vietnam when the reporters were independent.
Thank you for offering your perspective!
Kerry Echo | Nov 14, 2009 | Reply
^ I can vouch for this ^
When Matt is here, he’s generally aghast at our complete lack of world news (he has to go online to figure out what’s going on in other countries), and things like “Twiggy the Water-Skiing Squirrel” just baffle him.
I think my own abysmal ignorance of current events outside of the U.S. depressed him some too, although I’ve tried to step it up since
B | Nov 14, 2009 | Reply
Rev Cynthia:
Actually it was one helluva creative TC’er [made these huge carvival bikes that were world famous, very neato artisty guy, lost them when they raided TC] who slept in his “coffin”.
He didn’t call it that–he called it “the box I sleep in”–we dubbed it “the coffin” because it looked like a steel coffin.
And yes, every time he’s been de-housed, he sleeps in it. The size makes it heat-efficient. I tea candle in there for an hour before sleeping and it’s toasty.
Actually, there’s a definite irony about the coffin thing because if the government is gonna pay for it when you’re dead–why not buy it for ya a few years earlier when you can get some real use out of the thing? Warmer than sleeping on a heating grate.
Frankly, the irony would make a helluva point to even the most obtuse politician, I’d think?
Actually, I’m smelling a legitimate, in-your-face-attention-getting-protest tactic in there, somewhere.
For example–hold a huge funeral march with the exact amount of dead de-housed people cardboard caskets to the front steps of city hall with a sign that says, “Murdered by Indifference.”
MetisRebel | Nov 17, 2009 | Reply
“It becomes very clear from listening to the BBC just how insular our news reporting is. I credit some of the stupidity of the American people to the increasing docility of the news media since the Reagan era. “Imbedded” reporters at the front??? We are not getting much news on the war as a consequence, certainly nothing like we were getting out of Vietnam when the reporters were independent.”
I agree with the media problem there, 100% Kerry. It’s nothing more than a shilling services. Ridiculous. More like Stalinist Russia than a “free press”.
If Americans had been watching International news such as Al Jazeera, BBC, [The public French channel I used to have was great, it came in an English version] CBC–there might have been no Afghanistan fiasco and certainly NEVER have sent troops to Iraq. Were most Americans even aware that NATO told the USA that invading Iraq was a flagrant disregard of international law and that as such, it was ILLEGAL [making Bush&Co instant war criminals]? It also means that anyone who refuses to be deployed to Iraq is actually considered to be LAWFULLY refusing to execute illegal orders and that anyone executing those unlawful orders is in violation of international law?
That wasn’t even the case in Vietnam…
Are Americans even aware that Spainish judges are considering trying Bush in absentia [they've done it successfully with other war criminals] for war crimes and that if they do–if the Bushies set ONE FOOT in Europe they will be imprisoned because under extradition law, every European country would be legally bound to extradite them to Spain?
I’m actually hoping they have the gall to try it, really. It was a big flap at the white house for weeks–one I don’t think Americans even heard about.
Then of course, I’m not sure the American News services are sure where Spain actually is…
The BBC is considered one of the greatest news services IN THE WORLD. It’s every reporter’s wet dream to be on Fleet Street or at the BBC. Al Jazeera has lost MORE reporters murdered for covering news stories in dangerous places, of news that no one would ever know, than any other news service.
The only suffering the gutless Fox pundits have been through is endlessly shooting themselves in the foot.
Aw, we should talk. We’ve got that freakin’ rag, “The Toronto Sun” aka “The No-Mind, Must be YOUR News” rag.
MetisRebel | Nov 17, 2009 | Reply